Candid Messaging to Team and Community

Hi everyone,

Long time AMPL’er here. Go by cloudedlogic on twitter. One of the most public outspoken members of the community. I’m proposing some immediate changes in marketing/communication/and timeliness to community.

On technical end, I couldn’t be more wowed on a daily basis. The amount of work I see Brandon, Nithin, and Aavaladah putting out is absolutely incredible. Literally pioneered a new asset class. Put us onto AAVE which they literally needed to change the entire backend of how AAVE works to make it happen. On technical end absolute brilliance. We even have attracted the attention of other incredible developer minds like Gostep, Emilio from Aave and others.

But in terms of Marketing Communication, and timeliness it has been an absolute failure and one of the biggest injustices to our incredible community. We have 30,000 holders in which I speak to many on a daily basis. Some of the smartest folks and best people I know. So i find it such an incredible disservice and injustice when we have an old website and the person managing the website can’t even properly update the roadmaps. We still have elastic AMM’s and all sorts of stuff that has been removed from a year ago. I don’t think anything has been touched whatsoever. Also what ever happened to the marketing in respects to medium articles and updates. You guys are literally developing some of the most next generation tech and we’re left completely in the dark. It feels as though this is APPLE in 1985 and Steve Wozniak has built all these incredible things yet Steve Jobs decided to sleep and do 0 innovation.

Crypto teams have been growing 1000% in the last year and AMPL remains the same in size. It is an incredible disservice and if this was a company, the team hasn’t maintained its duties to the holders.

Despite these magnificent tech innovations our token price has fallen 99% in terms of eth and all I see on twitter is this patting eachother on the back on the brilliance of the idea.

I would rate tech 11/10 and all other aspects a 0/10. I would seriously hope things change immediately to best serve us in the proper way. We have one of the most brilliant and active communities and we’re being mistreated.

We have the most incredible tech to market and yet I see less then none.

Others have been eating our lunch but we can still come back and show the world what we have done. I think if we get a hands on leader that makes immediate changes and engages with community honestly and on a daily basis we can make one of the biggest turnarounds in crypto.

Let’s make it happen!


-New marketing company should be implemented immediately. Hire whoever Aave and some big brands are hiring

  • active Twitter and engagement, not just once every few months for a bit then total drop off

  • updated website immediately

  • wAMPL with geysers and big rewards

Community is all right here and we’re waiting for some action.

Developing wise phenomenal, and these changes can bring us back to glory @Brandon


I created an account just to say thank you for this post! I can’t agree more.


Hey @Andrew, thanks for taking the time to write this, and for all of your support through the Ampleforth journey.

The core community has stayed together through thick and thin by really taking the time to understand AMPL and its potential role in the future both economically and ideologically. That’s what connects us. Getting to that understanding was no small task and is a testament to the strength and vision of the community.

+1 to @Brandon, @Nithin, @Ahmed for their great engineering work.

I think the biggest catalyst for success in messaging and marketing will be the transition from AMPL as an experiment, to AMPL as a utility. This will be the focus of the upcoming web updates, which highlight AMPL as a utility in a clear and connected way.

We’re shifting from talking abstractly about being a building block, to being a building block. This will affect all communication and marketing endeavors moving forward.

AIP-35 just executed this weekend, and we are just now beginning this transition.

Before, there was nothing really for developers to build with AMPL, there was nothing allowing traders to utilize AMPL’s unique qualities in trade, and it was hard to put AMPL on the shelves people are used to buying from.

That’s all changing quickly.

Developments like 1) projects building up the stack with AMPL [], 2) the aAMPL pool, and 3) wAMPL, unlock ways of communicating with developers, DeFi whales, and retail users, using the language they know best.

I agree there will be more marketing opportunities than ever before. We’ll recruit to meet this potential and provide more communication, together.

Soon we’ll be able to speak plainly and point to clear, actionable, use cases that can be immediately adopted. But it’s going to take an extra gear, as you suggested, to earn attention and gain adoption. We’ve all been waiting for this, and are excited to be there.

Need to go from:
AMPL as an experiment → Powered by AMPL.


I agree with everything you say。Besides,i think the project schedule should be more controllable and orderly,Fighting.


Hey Andrew, thanks for the kind words to me and others on the development team. I really appreciate this, and it helps keep us motivated to continue each day.

The technology, even more for us than other projects, rests on the economic thinking and development that came from many long days of reading, conversing, writing, and research that does not show up in public github repos. This continues through product updates and releases. When you appreciate the work of the “tech-team”, it’s the work of the entire team. Seeing this from all sides makes me appreciate how much necessary work remains largely invisible. The divisions within small teams like ours are also not always cut and dry–people contribute in many different ways.

Regarding the effectiveness of marketing, I don’t want to make any excuses but I can attest to just how difficult it is communicating such abstract ideas to the crypto ecosystem. This is no easy task when there are so many distractions and so much hype going around. I often think that the easiest time for projects like us is in markets like bear markets where quality of vision and quality of work has a much greater chance to shine.

Also, for AMPL to succeed it needs to be more than just the genesis development team. Engendering new ideas is a communal activity, and its value becomes much greater when it comes organically rather than from a salesman. I see the work you’re doing there, and hold much appreciation for it. If there’s anything we can do to help you (and this goes from everyone btw!) please let us know. We can probably improve here as well.

I’d always quietly hoped that as a project, we could under promise and over deliver. I don’t think anyone on the team joined to become Bitconnect. We joined to further the goal of creating a better, safer ecosystem. Striking that balance is hard.

I agree with what Evan said above and believe that this will soon get easier as we’ll be able to transition into a “show” rather than “tell” approach. Even though AMPL has been “live” for 2 years, I’m only just recently starting to think of it as “launched.” In the early days there wasn’t much utility aside from trading it and holding it. Now the leverageable space is getting bigger. Borrowing and Lending only went live this past weekend when AIP-35 executed and represents one of the core use cases of the asset. The adoption marketing actually starts… right about now.

WE ARE RECRUITING BY THE WAY! Recruiting talented folks is hard and takes time. I’d rather stay smaller for a bit longer and maintain our current high quality than grow too fast and dilute one thing that makes the team special. If you are talented and motivated, please reach out to us! We’d love to talk to you.


Appreciate the responses @Brandon & @evankuo.

It is beyond exciting to see AMPL at the point where developers can start building and we move pass the talk phase and actually become the building block (well put Evan).

Would love to see an AMPL developer conference where we can all come together and start building. I’ll dm you guys separate to see how I can further help the community grow.

Any concrete dates for website? Updated roadmap? Or the geysers?

Growing the team is crucial and to bring on the top talent. Was happy to see Mark Toda coming aboard as well.

Some additional ideas:

  • monthly technical video calls or voice chats similar to Aave governance with community.
    -active Twitter presence to keep us in loop.
  • a governance post on forum for every update going into ampleforth protocol
  • 1st ever AMPL-conference where we get developers to come and back on it. Perhaps in partnership with Aave and others
  • bringing on some esteemed members/defi whales of crypto community to evangelize in some capacity

What else does community think? Other ideas?

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Hello everyone, this marzipanstar, you all know me as marzipanstar obviously.

First – Andrew – thank you for raising those points.
Second – cue the trolls (as usual)

Third –

Its nice to see that community is finally waking up to the agenda I’ve raised many months ago and it’s a great shame that community started to wake up only after AMPL moved from 100 rank to 380 smth rank.

Its hard to say what is really going on behind the scenes, but let me try to add a bit more meat on top of this.

From what I understand AMPL was never original idea by Ampl team, it was Vitalik who came up with it -

Similarly Vitalik suggested many other cool things, like AMMs or quadratic voting, which were later implemented by various teams. Well maybe he didn’t come up with those ideas per se, but he surely coined them in the context of blockchain assets and gave those ideas right push.

Certainly Kudos to Brandon and his team for doing amazing technical work, because implementation of that stuff is really difficult and does not fit “normal pattern”.

But all of that is beside the key point, which is – WAKE UP finally. If you still believe that this this team is going to deliver something tangible you must be completely and utterly delirious. Effectively nothings been delivered for the past TWO YEARS, like NOTHING, why do you think all of a sudden they will make breakthroughs?

OK, Brandon is a workhorse, can’t take them from him, he works very hard and diligently on what he is supposed to be doing. But that’s not all what a successful project is.

The rest of those people, Simon who is “passionate about growth” – are you kidding me? He is like clueless lacrosse boy out of school, but my favorite one is Jessica – not a single time I ever saw her doing anything at all, not a single conference, article, not a single line in discord absolutely nothing, WHO IS THIS PERSON ON THE TEAM NAMED JESSICA – please someone tell me, I would very much like to know. Richy is somewhat similar, a lot of babbling about nothing.

My favorite hero is of course Evan. Guys the point is – this project is dead, if you still believe otherwise and really think they will all of a sudden start doing something that’s’ uff, you have a lot of faith in macaroni monster.

Just think about it for a second, so they spent what 7-8 months on integrating AMPL into AAVE (good job Brandon again). I did some research, from initial request to actual listing 6-8 months to get listed on AAVE is actually normal, not unheard of at least, some other assets had a similar path. But that’s not the problem, that’s a statement – it’s a difficult venture, and Brandon managed to fix it. But on this journey NOT A SINGLE SOUL on the team, out of those who are supposed to be responsible for this thought about economics of AAVE lending. Not a single person gave it half an hour pencil draw doodle consideration – how it might play over. There is absolutely no surprise, that AAVE placement is a total failure.

I can’t claim that I’ve watched all of videos available where team speaks, but I think I was thorough enough to see most of them and here is what’s interesting. A lot of those events are covered by Brandon only, some of the most important online conferences are covered by Brandon. With all due respect Brandon – your pitch sucks, and its not your fault in my opinion, because its not even your role to do this kind of talking. So I’m watching those conferences and AMPL pitch compared to adjacent pitches is lame beyond compare. Other participants just cannot shut up, its impossible to make them stop, they just talk and talk about their projects. Most of them (eh +/-) make good sense, they know their projects very well, they talk fluently and logically about various angles, how it fits into the ecosystem etc. On the other hand, when Brandon talks, his just keeps repeating literary same pitch over and over, and that’s been going on for at least past two years. I’m not joking or exaggerating here – its 5 minute talk which Brandon rehearsed, and he literary repeats same thing every single time word for word. All of that is available online just check for yourself and you will see.

And its not his fault that it is so crap, because he is receiving no support whatsoever from people who are supposed provide that support. Same very people who are supposed to be responsible for growth, and development of AAVE / AMPL economics which is non-existent.

There were a couple of instances where Evan talks. And those are pretty tricky speeches – he talks very fast, its very difficult to make out his point, all in all it feels like incompetent mash of economics crypto and all sorts of things. The impression it gives is something like this – imagine there is this very poor student, he is poor because he is lazy, he just can’t be bothered to study, he likes to enjoy himself and likes running around looking cool, but the problem is that every now and then surrounding world actually puts a requirement on him to deliver something tangible, like a speech on a conference. So being lazy and all, he just can’t be bothered to prepare really for anything, he just turns up on the spot and starts mashing together all those bits and pieces hoping that it would be enough to meet the demand put on him by the outer world. This is Evan.

But its NOT enough and markets are actively and very intensely penalising this kind of behavior. Price just keeps sliding and sliding. A lot of you are concerned that we are being in bull market loosing money, and you are right, being in a bull market and loose money feels really stupid, isn’t it. The answer to your concerns is very simple. You as community, should get together and get rid of that bunch of useless people including Evan, Jessica, Simon and Richy. Just get rid of them. They could not deliver anything for the past two years. There is nothing to suggest that they are capable of delivering quality product in the future. You have to keep in mind that in a very DIRECT sense every single holder of AMPL is paying to Evan. Because if all of you would sell suddenly, price would crash, and Evan’s holdings plummet, he would be without cash. At least that would’ve been the case sometime ago. I don’t know exactly what’s going on now, all them might’ve already cashed out enough to live happily ever after – if that’s the case, then situation for every single AMPL holder is ever worse, because team have no incentive whatsoever to develop AMPL further, instead they have incentive to milk it beyond extinction.

Andrew good job on raising the points. Your only mistake, is that you are not getting anything that you mentioned in your posts. There are some things which needs to be done in connection with AMPL to make it successful. I would say that 90% of them are not rocket science at all, they are not even school math, but they are very hard work. And those people just can’t be bothered to work, that’s it. So you can make those posts, and Evan’s going to reply to you with something, but the bottom line is that nothing’s going to happen, because these people are can’t be bothered to work. There are some total and absolute NOBRAINERS which must’ve been done long time ago, and which require no qualification whatsoever, just common sense, attention and work. I’ve suggested tons of various improvements over the past year, and absolutely nothing is done.

I can give you one example here – it is pretty much standard to have site and all the materials to be translated to at least major languages. Crypto is international, Chinese is a huge audience, Spanish speaking people is a huge audience. Some projects I’ve seen which are actively looking to grow are translated into 16 languages, because every single user counts. I’ve suggested that many times over and what do you think the result was? They got site translated? - No, I got banned from Discord.

My theory is that they are not interested in building this work further at all, they are interested in milking it as much as possible. If you look at broad narrative, it would make total sense. Everyone on discord who is not happy with current way of things, criticising or suggesting improvements just gets banned. Makes total sense, if you want to continue milking the project for as long as possible, then just ban all the people who voicing concerns.

All these secretiveness has a very simply explanation – they have nothing tangible to show for development. That’s it. I follow very closely progress of some select few project in the blockchain space. It’s a very hard work, because you have to chase information around very diligently and very carefully. And I can tell you this much – it’s a very peculiar situation where core devs refuse to show roadmap or even talk on discord. Pretty much every single team is very easy to reach. Just ping them on telegram or discord and they reply. Makes total sense as well, if you have nothing to show, no work’s being done and you have nothing to talk about, just don’t talk, that’s it. That’s why you have those useless 30 minute “office hours”. I call them “community mocking hours”. They are very short, especially given that everything is typed, they don’t cover much, and allow to ignore difficult questions.

So let me wrap it up, I think is getting too long. Andrew good job, but I think you are wasting your time. The rest of you I don’t know what to tell you, if you still believe all that nonsense, well carry on “paying for the team”, if you feel that it’s unfair that you support them with your capital and they give you “community mocking hours” in return, then either push to get rid of useless people or just sell.

Take it or leave, this my subjective view of things and you be the judge.


The administrators of discord and Tel are very conscientious and always get ride of the people who raise questions in time. You can’t see any negative views in the group, which is very good.

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Thanks @Andrew!

  • monthly technical video calls or voice chats similar to Aave governance with community.

This is a great idea and long overdue, excited about the discussion here.

  • active Twitter presence to keep us in loop.

Totally, maybe we can even do the voice chats on Twitter spaces and rope you in on some sort of content cadence, you seem to have a solid read on how engage here, any chance you’re open to that?

  • 1st ever AMPL-conference where we get developers to come and back on it. Perhaps in partnership with Aave and others

I’m 100% behind this idea, was originally thinking “Powered By AMPL” could be the talk or panel name as way of kinda capping the beginning of a new era. There’s finally going to be stuff for people to do.

  • bringing on some esteemed members/defi whales of crypto community to evangelize in some capacity

Yes to this as well, keep thinking the more communicable things are, the easier it will get, but we should get a head start on it.

Any concrete dates for website? Updated roadmap? Or the geysers?

Expect to see 1) an aAMPL geyser in the coming week or so, 2) website update in the next two weeks (theme is GET + USE) , 3) wAMPL moving into the public repo, and many more things in the pipe. Will touch on a broader three phased approach for the longer term plan


Beautiful! This is great man. As for Twitter live convos, I’m 100% in to discuss in be active there. And happy to help in the AMPL conference as well.

Thanks for this and can’t wait for the website and geysers!


Progress is indeed slow! Some recent plans seem to be recent ideas, not very early plans, and no future plans. Obviously, they are irresponsible to the community. You seem to have time off. You have observed that many other projects do not give yourself a lot of time to rest.